Subject: Good Zerg Defence
From: Kenny from SouthPark
Date: Wed Jan 6 17:47:14

I just played a 1on1 BW game and stumbled upon an awsome defence for Zerg. I'd just like to let everyone know so they can try. It's a choke point defence like a Terran: Bunker-Tank-Turret thing.

CP=Choke Point
LR=Lurker (Burrowed of course.)
SC=Sunken Colony
SP=Spore Colony

(In my case, the choke point was up north.)

Subject: Re: Zerg Strategy Page 1.02 a few things... From: BoY Date: Wed Jan 6 21:33:04

On Wed Jan 6 16:40:35, KTBN wrote: > Zerg Strategy Page 1.01 > 1.)Introduction > Thanks for coming. This page is for anyone that needs help or is > willing to give help regarding the zerg.> > First I will deal with helping people and dealing with any of the > problems that other people have. Look below and see if you have any > of the problems that I have listed. If so, scroll down to that part > of the page and see some hints which I think in my opinion will help. > If not, it would help if you gave me some advice. Later on, I have a > few questions of my own which I need help with, so see if you can > help. If you think something is wrong, please feel free to make any > criticism. I will always appreciate the comments that people have. > I am going to update this page with the questions and suggestions I > get so look for new versions of this page. I dont recommend you read > all of this (unless you want to of course) so just go through a and > b, and if you are not interested after that, it may be best to leave. > I am not a beginner so I do have quite some experience with my ideas. > There is a question section at the end so please ask or answer any of > the questions. > What the problems are: > -1: other person rushes me > -2: opponent is outnumbering my units> -3: several players are attacking me > -4: my high tech units get killed and so do I> -5: Carriers are annoying > -6: I just cant win > > Beginning build orders next > > Questions at end > > > 2.) THE PROBLEMS+SOLUTIONS > > Problem #1: I am on a small map and I try to rush but the other > person beats me in the rush so I have nothing i can do. > Solution: If you really want to rush, what you should do is have a > constant building of zerglings as fast as you can but when the other > zerglings rush you, try to fend them off with sunken colonies, then > attack with your stockpile of zerglings. If they send zerglings > before you can finish your sunken colonies, you can try a 4 drone > rush where you build no drones until right before you get the > spawning pool. > > Problem #2: The opponent just outnumbers me in units and he slowly > kills me. > Solution: The best thing to do is build many quick hatchery's with > lots of drones mining minerals, and enough gas so there is a steady > flow. Build a hydralisk den and make hydralisks and zerglings at a > 1:1 ratio. Don't wait for a horde of units. Attack once in a while > with many units and your many hatcheries should keep them quite > occupied. If you send this many creatures, the opponent should have a > rough time. In the mean while, you should be building many expansion > bases because you are using a lot of your resources. Your attacks > will keep them mostly occupied so you should have much trouble with > defending but you should start building more units from th expansion > bases to join your many attacks. > > Problem #3: I'm getting concentrated attack from several enemies. > Solution: Several enemies are hard to get rid of but your best > chances of survival are buildings (colonies), because they do a lot > of damage, and have many hit points. If you defend yourself, your > allies should attack the opponents and the pain should gradually > lessen. If this is a 1v many game, I cant give you much advice but to > play equal games until you get better. > > Problem #4: I have just got a high tech unit (ultralisk, defiler, > guardian), but then the opponent swarms me with a countless amount of > units. > Solution: chances are, you tried to climb up the tech tree too fast, > you should always build many units for defense while attacking also, > and then gradually move up the tech tree for better units. > > Problem #5: I cannot stop the protoss carriers. My spore colonies > easy fall, and my units are no match for the carriers. > Solution: If you are sure that your opponent has many air units, > make a horde of scourage to take out air units. They are really good > anti air for a pretty cheap price. Keep in mind that you should make > a little extra than what you want to kill because scourage have > little hit points and are easily killed. scourages arn't the best ideas...to much gas... u could easliy be making hydras...but if gas is all u have...plus tell your spores to attack the carriers itself, they usually go after those damn intercepteres...> > Problem #6: I just cant seem to win (this is a problem that many > people have). > Solution: First thing to do is to skim the previous parts and make > sure you are following the basic guidlines of how to play. If you're > talking about not being able to win against the top latter players, I > cannot help you. But if you are a beginner, and you just cant beat > anybody, you should follow my previous thoughts. If you have > something in particular, respond to this, and i will make sure to > have it in my next version. Any kind of questions regarding strategy, > or statistics or where to find something, tell me so I can find out > along with you about the question. > > > 3.) BUILDING ORDERS > My beginning build order: > spawning pool > sunken colony > sunken colony > vespene extractor > hydra den > hatchery > hatchery > upg. lair > (then expansion base and so on) > > Person #1's building order: > 2nd Hatchery > spawning pool > vespene extractor > sunken colony > sunken colony > hydra den > upg. lair > (then expansion base and so on) > > Person #2's Building Order (in several phases) > 1st phase - > Smurfboy's build order + small explanation > Spawning pool - get about 4-6 zerglings then, > 2nd hatchery - start pumping out zerglings up to abotout 2-3 groups > of 12 on a 1:1 ratio with drones until you have enough drones. start > scouting with 'lingsextractor - with 4 drones mining > hydralisk den - build up to 3 groups of hydras for defence and attack > with zeglings> 2nd phase - > upgrade to lair - research fast and range increased overlords > expansion - get some more defence > spire - get 1 grop of mutas and harass enemy peon lines for > annoyance/disruption to enemy build up to 2-3 groups of mutalisks and > start combined strikes w/hydras zerglings.expansion wherever possible > 3rd phase -> upgrade to hive nydus canal all expansions > ultralisk cavern/defiler mound................ > Here's another useful one... not the best, still good-drones till max-pool-drone -overlord- 3 drones-sunkens in a triangle near your minerlas/ hat/pool-drones -hat-gas (keep builidn drones..and once in a while sunkens...any ground forces will get raped...) -liar when u have 100 gasoverlord speedqueens nest hat hive-adrenalin glands(they kick ass- plus u should have ling speed) -spire while zerglings you should recon alot...know what there doings....this is a good one for toss cause adernal gland zerglings kick ass -mutas for AA an rember to build evelution chanber...and get armor, not attack...well that's it...it's an ok tatic..i never lost with it yet... > THE QUESTION SECTION: > 1.) What should I do about ranged units like the siege tank or reaver? > 2.) What is an anti Psionic Storm > > Any suggestions? Again, any help is received thankfully, and remember > that this page is going to be renewed and re posted. If you want any > questions posted, ask your question so I and many other people can > answer it. If you find > me on b-net, say hi. My names are KTBN and TGKN. Thanks. -=got better email me=- > 1. Zerg Economy vs. Unit Production (my biggest problem)> > I am a random player. When I get Zerg, however, I always find myself > facing massive problems that always lead to me losing the game. I am > finding the the centralized production to be a huge drawback for me. > When I go for an early sunken defense, I sacrifice drones and thus > sacrifice income. When trying to make lots of Zlings and/or Hydras > to protect from early rushes I also wind up sacrificing larva for > attacking units instead of drones, and that inadvertedly affects my > income and I wind up falling behind. When I try to make more drones > soon I lag behind in unit production and get rushed and massacred. > Whats worse, when I try to make a second hatchery super early, not > only do I sacrifice BOTH additional drones and combat units, but I > also soon find myself without sufficient income to make enough troops > out of even one of the hatcheries. I need a good Zerg build order > ASAP. Without one I may never win a game as Zerg again.> i find this a problem too. the solution is of course a quick expansion. the infamous BO i use is small maps( fake morph 10th drone, make pool, make ol, wait for pool to finish, make zlings w/ 3 larvae, plop down second hatch probably at close expansion. harass opponent w/ zlings, go for sunkens at expansions. basically 1 hatch makes military while 1 hatch makes drones for 2 hatcheries. sunkens r really too good! dammit. > 1. Zerg Economy vs. Unit Production (my biggest problem)> > I am a random player. When I get Zerg, however, I always find myself > facing massive problems that always lead to me losing the game. I am > finding the the centralized production to be a huge drawback for me. > When I go for an early sunken defense, I sacrifice drones and thus > sacrifice income. When trying to make lots of Zlings and/or Hydras > to protect from early rushes I also wind up sacrificing larva for > attacking units instead of drones, and that inadvertedly affects my > income and I wind up falling behind. When I try to make more drones > soon I lag behind in unit production and get rushed and massacred. > Whats worse, when I try to make a second hatchery super early, not > only do I sacrifice BOTH additional drones and combat units, but I > also soon find myself without sufficient income to make enough troops > out of even one of the hatcheries. I need a good Zerg build order > ASAP. Without one I may never win a game as Zerg again.> i find this a problem too. the solution is of course a quick expansion. the infamous BO i use is small maps( fake morph 10th drone, make pool, make ol, wait for pool to finish, make zlings w/ 3 larvae, plop down second hatch probably at close expansion. harass opponent w/ zlings, go for sunkens at expansions. basically 1 hatch makes military while 1 hatch makes drones for 2 hatcheries. sunkens r really too good! dammit. > 8. Irradiate vs. Zerg in the late game> > As Zerg (especially on island maps in the late game) irradiate always > seems to be my downfall. If the game lasts long enough to get to the > stage where my opponent has multiple science vessels with irradiate, > I am finished. Mutas versus Irradiate is a joke and the same goes > for guardians. If my airforce is helpless, dropping a group of > troops becomes exceedingly difficult. Once again, I am truly baffled.> no idea.

Subject: Good Zerg defense and a question... From: Flathead Date: Thu Jan 7 13:47:49 Hi all, I dreamed up a pretty good early-mid game defense that would not take long to set up, wouldn't be too hard to maintain, and could stand up to a sizeable assault. Here it is: -Put 3 sunken colonies and one spore on your side of the choke/chokes. Bury 2-4 lurkers in front of the colonies. Burrow 12 or 24 zerglings even further out, so that if tanks come they will unburrow right on top of the tanks. -Keep hydras or scourge (or both) rallied well behind the sunkens(or on patrol behind them), to come out in case of attack from the air. -Scatter spore colonies throughout the base (enough to provide detection for the whole base) but do not go overboard. You want scourge or hydras to do most of the anti-air work for you. Also, the spores will detect other cloaked units (ghosts, DT's) and your forces will be able to deal with them more easily. Anyway, I know everything is counterable, so you guys will certainly find a way around that. I am trying to find a way to provide static defenses for my Zerg base and expansions that does not use 13215 control points, doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and will actually protect me for a few if I'm busy somewhere else.Flathead Subject: Re: Good Zerg defense and a question...
From: Korasoff[265]
Date: Thu Jan 7 14:00:20


Hey Flathead, Thats a darn good defense. Now if you are talking mid-game, I'll assume Templars are available. If you are up agaisnt a Protoss who went for the templar part of the tech tree, he could have mass Zealots with Templars. An observer would also rock the party. Here is how I see it: 1)Observer moves in searching for your choke, finds it, and sees the Zerglings burrowed.2) 24 zeals + 2-3 templars move in. 3) Templars kill lings with psi storm. 4) Zealots ram the sunkens. Your lurkers jump in action; seeing this, the observer inches forward to detect them. Templars or zeals attack them. 5) Hydras pop in to say hello. Temps rock em. 6) Scourges and Spores sit around while the place gets trashed. Thats how I see it. If anyone sees flaws, please report them. Its a very general plan, though.

Subject: How mutalisk damage works
From: Avocat
Date: Sun Jan 10 13:39:05


In the recent discussions of devourers and mutalisks I've seen a lot of different descriptions of how mutalisk damage works. Here's how I understand it:1) Basic damage is 9-3-1. 2) The first hit gets the full benefit of the damage upgrade. For the first bounce, the upgrade is divided by 3. The second bounce gets no benefit from the upgrade. A fully upgraded mutalisk therefore does 12-4-1. 3) All three hits get the benefit of negative armor (from devourer acid spores). In the best possible situation, i.e. a fully upgraded mutalisk hitting an unarmored target with 9 acid spores, the mutalisk will do 21-13-10. I'm almost certain that's correct, but feel free to let meknow if I'm wrong. Subject:
From: KTBN
Thanks for coming. This page is for anyone that needs help or is willing to give help regarding the zerg. First I will deal with helping people and dealing with any of the problems that other people have. Look below and see if you have any of the problems that I have listed. If so, scroll down to that part of the page and see some hints which I think in my opinion will help. If not, it would help if you gave me some advice. Later on, I have a few questions of my own which I need help with, so see if you can help. If you think something is wrong, please feel free to make any criticism. I will always appreciate the comments that people have. I am going to update this page with the questions and suggestions I get so look for new versions of this page. I dont recommend you read all of this (unless you want to of course) so just go through a and b, and if you are not interested after that, it may be best to leave. I am not a beginner so I do have quite some experience with my ideas. a. the problems-1: other person rushes me-2: opponent is outnumbering my units -3: several players are attacking me -4: my high tech units get killed and so do I-5: Carriers are annoying -6: I just cant win b. Then i have my build order which i dont exactly recommend for you to follow, but i think you should take a look. I have also included any other suggested orders. The building orders are stopped after a period of time because the build order depends on the opponent and map, but these are the basic beginnings.THE PROBLEMS: Problem #1: I am on a small map and I try to rush but the other person beats me in the rush so I have nothing i can do. Solution: If you really want to rush, what you should do is have a constant building of zerglings as fast as you can but when the other zerglings rush you, try to fend them off with sunken colonies, then attack with your stockpile of zerglings. If they send zerglings before you can finish your sunken colonies, you can try a 4 drone rush where you build no drones until right before you get the spawning pool. Problem #2: The opponent just outnumbers me in units and he slowly kills me. Solution: The best thing to do is build many quick hatchery's with lots of drones mining minerals, and enough gas so there is a steady flow. Build a hydralisk den and make hydralisks and zerglings at a 1:1 ratio. Don't wait for a horde of units. Attack once in a while with many units and your many hatcheries should keep them quite occupied. If you send this many creatures, the opponent should have a rough time. In the mean while, you should be building many expansion bases because you are using a lot of your resources. Your attacks will keep them mostly occupied so you should have much trouble with defending but you should start building more units from th expansion bases to join your many attacks. Problem #3: I'm getting concentrated attack from several enemies. Solution: Several enemies are hard to get rid of but your best chances of survival are buildings (colonies), because they do a lot of damage, and have many hit points. If you defend yourself, your allies should attack the opponents and the pain should gradually lessen. If this is a 1v many game, I cant give you much advice but to play equal games until you get better. Problem #4: I have just got a high tech unit (ultralisk, defiler, guardian), but then the opponent swarms me with a countless amount of units. Solution: chances are, you tried to climb up the tech tree too fast, you should always build many units for defense while attacking also, and then gradually move up the tech tree for better units. Problem #5: I cannot stop the protoss carriers. My spore colonies easy fall, and my units are no match for the carriers. Solution: If you are sure that your opponent has many air units, make a horde of scourage to take out air units. They are really good anti air for a pretty cheap price. Keep in mind that you should make a little extra than what you want to kill because scourage have little hit points and are easily killed. Problem #6: I just cant seem to win (this is a problem that many people have). Solution: First thing to do is to skim the previous parts and make sure you are following the basic guidlines of how to play. If you're talking about not being able to win against the top latter players, I cannot help you. But if you are a beginner, and you just cant beat anybody, you should follow my previous thoughts. If you have something in particular, respond to this, and i will make sure to have it in my next version. Any kind of questions regarding strategy, or statistics or where to find something, tell me so I can find out along with you about the question.B. BUILDING ORDERS My beginning build order: spawning poolsunken colonysunken colonyvespene extractorhydra denhatchery hatcheryupg. lair(then expansion base and so on) Person #1's building order: 2nd Hatcheryspawning poolvespene extractorsunken colonysunken colonyhydra den upg. lair(then expansion base and so on) Any suggestions? Again, any help is received thankfully, and remember that this page is going to be renewed and re posted. If you find me on b-net, say hi. My names are KTBN and TGKN. Thanks. Subject: From: Smurfboy Host: Date: addition Smurfboy gimlet.hunterlink.net.au Wed Jan 6 03:06:54 B. BUILDING ORDERS > My beginning build order: > spawning pool > sunken colony > sunken colony > vespene extractor > hydra den > hatchery > hatchery > upg. lair > (then expansion base and so on) > > Person #1's building order: > 2nd Hatchery > spawning pool > vespene extractor > sunken colony > sunken colony > hydra den > upg. lair > (then expansion base and so on) The starting build order for this is exactly what I do from there on in it sometimes gets varied 1st phase - Smurfboy's build order + small explanation Spawning pool - get about 4-6 zerglings then, 2nd hatchery - start pumping out zerglings up to abotout 2-3 groups of 12 on a 1:1 ratio with drones until you have enough drones. start scouting with 'lings extractor - with 4 drones mining hydralisk den - build up to 3 groups of hydras for defence and attack with zeglings 2nd phase - upgrade to lair - research fast and range increased overlords expansion - get some more defence spire - get 1 grop of mutas and harass enemy peon lines for annoyance/disruption to enemy build up to 2-3 groups of mutalisks and start combined strikes w/hydras zerglings. expansion wherever possible 3rd phase - upgrade to hive nudus canal all expansions ultralisk cavern/defiler mound................