Subject:
From:
Host:
Date:  Re: Try a strategy, not a tactic
Squigy 
p15-condor-gui.tch.cableol.net
Thu Jan 7 18:20:28 


The things you list are tactics. You do them to increase the 
effectiveness of your troops. You will still lose if your strategy is 
bad, against a reasonable player.

You should do the following.

Scout the enemy as soon as you are producing troops, with an SCV.

If the enemy is zerg, once you have found him do the following.

If he has several sunkens, but few troops, move all of your marines 
to just outside of his base, with at least 2 SCVs. Build a bunker. Go 
straight for siege tanks. Get them *AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE*. With 2+ 
SCV's repairing  a bunker, the zerg player will lose too many men to 
destroy it. As soon as you get siege tanks, move them up, and lay 
siege to the zerg player, advancing into his base. Build towers as 
you advance, to stop any threat from lurkers. The zerg player will 
have no response, except a few queens at best (unlikely though). Even 
if you do not kill him off, you have bought yourself a breathing spot 
with which you can expand to a couple more spots, build defences, and 
general start to dominate the level. This advantage will let you 
crush the zerg player, who has no expansion of his own, because of 
your clever strategy, even if I do say so myself.

If he has not got any/few sunkens, build at least 3-4 barracks, then 
an acadamy, attack the instant you have stimpacks researched. He will 
not have lurkers at that point, and neither will he have enough to 
stop you (hydralisks and zerglings do not defeat the same cost of 
marines, with stimpacks).

Against protoss, you should try the same sort of thing..

If he has gone for photons+early tech, get siege tanks quickly, build 
a bunker as close to him as you can manage safely, crush him with 
siege tech, whilst expanding. be sure to have a missile tower behind 
the bunker quickly, just in case, as well as to scout for dark 
templar.

If he has gone for straight zealots, build lots of firebats, but try 
to get siege tanks quite quickly too; they are essential for defence, 
and most attacks. With 3-4 barracks making firebats and marines, you 
can crush the protoss zealots, and then destroy his base. If he has 
photon cannons, lay seige rather than bothering to risk taking them 
on; it is much safer that way.

The most important thing is to scout early, and frequently. You 
should always be aware immediatly if the enemy has left his base. You 
should do your utmost to block him into his base, so you can expand 
quickly.

One tactic is to build supply depots to completely block his base's 
exit, then position marines behind it. He will need reavers/templar 
or photon cannons to deal with this. If you rush to siege tech you 
will get there at the same time as, or before, he gets 
psi-storm/reavers. Make use of your advantage, and you should have a 
much easier time getting early expansions, which really help a hell 
of a lot.

Obviously, it is possible to beat these suggestions, but beating them 
basicaly means using them first, in most cases.

Please, respond. I find my posts generate no replies, most of the 
time. Maybe I should say things like 'I hate hunterzz' & 'u suck ur 
mum dumbass I rape u' more often? :)




Subject:
From:
Host:
Date:  Re: Try a strategy, not a tactic
Narf's Shadow 
162.seattle-13-14rs.wa.dial-access.att.net
Thu Jan 7 20:54:54 


You know, you are right about the strategy/tactics thing.  The funny 
thing is that I know how to use them right, and encourage other 
people to use them right, yet I still use them wrong myself =).  
Anyways, when I asked for strats, I really did mean a little of both. 
 In reply to your post, I both like and disagree with some of the 
things you said.

First of all, I am the type of guy that aboloshes rushing, and 
encourages long, full tech games.  Sure, I know it is part of the 
game, and I should do everything in my power to win, but still, that 
is the general 'idea' I try and work with.  I am not saying I will 
not try, and if successful, use your help.  I am just saying I will 
try to avoid it if possible.

I do know that this is particulary deadly, but there are a few 
delemas I have to ask you about first.  First of all, what if the 
player is zerg, builds lots of lings to support himself early game, 
and then begins to tech up?  Basically what I am saying is, is that 
marines are pretty easy to defeat using other base level units.  If 
he overcomes your stationed troops, the situation revereses, and you 
fall behind.  A bigger worry would be from protoss, especially since 
it would be easy to play a couple of cannons just outside of your 
marines, to hit your supply depos (a lot of toss go early cannons, 
with a few zeolots for support, your idea may have problems with 
this).

How are you supposed to get the marines to the zergs base so fast?  
You make it sound as if they teleport =).  Any skilled player will 
also scout, EXPECIALLY zerg, with overlords.  Chances are, they will 
see your scv building whatever it is you are building.  And in come 
the zerglings that can be made in 30 seconds =/.

Many people underestimate how quickly produced or how powerful 12 
zeolots or 24 zerglings are.  I guess for the most part though, I 
have to agree with you.  Just one little spin-off.  What if this 
(like most games I play) is a team game?  More than likely, the other 
player will launch a rescue mission for the bunkered player, and that 
can only lead to dead tanks and marines, and a happy zerg free of 
capture.

Thanks for the help
Narf's Shadow
NarfsShadow@hotmail.com
"I like stories."  =)




Subject:
From:
Host:
Date:  EB to the rescue! = ) (long,read at own risk)
Evilboy 
204.221.190.101
Fri Jan 8 00:05:55 


Did you know that the doctors have found that the rate of the 
inflation of my ego directly correlates to how many posts I make 
about terran strategies?= )

Enough of that, on to the STRATS

First off, I'm going to assume you are a generally competent player.  
That assumes these things:

- You make a good deal of SCVs at mineral patches. 2 per patch with 4 
on gas is usually optimal.
- You try to expand when possible to increase your income.
- You know how to micromanage.  That doesn't mean you have to be a 
Zileas style "Shuttles that shoot scarabs" player, but that 
means you can actually use spells, hit and run, etc. etc.
- You know what recon is and try to use it.

I too am a terran-based player, which has heavily influenced my 
entire SC playing style.  The thing to note with Brood War is that 
every player on b.net and their mother has a fever with this game 
that ensures that they will not only build, but will FOCUS on the new 
units.  Protoss like dark templar, zerg like lurkers, and terrans 
like medics.  Unfortunately, dark templar and lurkers are both 
excellent ways to kill marine / medic combinations.  Some of the 
oldest and best strats are now more effective than ever.

Since I am assuming you've got basic skill, I won't go into build 
orders.  Heck, I don't even use them.  I build a supply depot on the 
8th SCV and wing it from there.


Infantry:

Marines:  Good anti-dragoon units and great general support, the 
marine loses effectiveness quickly thanks to reavers, dark templar, 
psi-storm, maelstrom, and carriers.  However, keep a few around, 
since they are great units when you can't really tell what is coming 
and are cheap enough so that a squadron of 12 won't hurt your 
economy.  Against zerg, marines are a must.  Every unit except 
defilers, adrenalings, and lurkers fear massed marines, and if you 
bring medics things only get messier.  Don't forget the upgrades, 
either.  If you have level 2 or 3 upgrades and your opponent is stuck 
at level 1 or 0, marines will kill just about ANYTHING they come out 
with, = ).

Firebats:  Now with Dark Templar killing marines in 1 hit, zealots 
being favored since protoss need gas like mad, and area-effect spells 
stlil hurting terrans, firebats are great.  Don't rely on them, but 
even a few of these guys in a marine / medic group can turn zealots 
into that blue-flame stuff like nobody's business.  Firebats can help 
against psi-storm in select occasions, since a psi-storm will 
generally hit the firebats and whatever they are trying to kill, but 
don't take that as TOO much of an advantage.  Against zerg, firebats 
are useful.  With medics they slaughter zerglings and adrenalings, 
making them important late-game, and aren't shabby against hydralisks 
either, at least when marines and medics are at their backs.  
Darkswarm is another reason, unless the zerg has ultralisks, 
darkswarm is a TERRAN's friend, since firebats will kill anything in 
it.

Medics:  Ahh, every terran's favorite unit nowadays.  Medics don't 
make marines do what they didn't do.  Marines never did kill templar, 
reavers, or carriers that well (ok, they did kill carriers until 
1.04, so what?).  Medics just take what marines are good at and make 
them that much BETTER.  Since infantry isn't the safest build against 
the high-damage and splash-happy protoss units, medics are of limited 
use.  Restore is damn near useless against a protoss, but optic flare 
can help against certain attacks.  Don't rely on them, but keep a few 
around.  Against zerg, medics are a MUST.  Restore takes down almost 
every zerg spell there is, even devourer acid spores.  Heal makes 
hydralisks, mutalisks, and zerglings much less useful, and optic 
flare makes having 1-2 overlords for detection pointless.

Ghosts:  THIS is what I call some anti-protoss INFANTRY!  Lockdown is 
a protoss player's WORST nightmare.  Lockdown takes a 1 food unit and 
allows it to disable not one but TWO units, which almost ALWAYS cost 
more.  Reavers, dragoons, scouts, corsairs, carriers, shuttles, 
arbiters, even observers can be locked down.  Lockdown is a great way 
to snipe units before a fight.  If your 12 marines don't really want 
to fight that 4 dragoon 2 reaver combo, 1 ghost can make that an easy 
battle to win.  Don't build in mass because of the micromanagement 
required, but ALWAYS have a few ghosts against a protoss.  Nukes + 
EMP are great attacks, I posted above about nuking strategies, I 
don't have the link but just look, those and Raid's should be enough 
to help you nuke protoss for a long time.  Ghosts aren't great 
against zerg, and should only be built for nukes and perhaps 
anti-mutalisk support if marines aren't cutting it.



Mech (Stuff from Factory):

Vultures:  Know why the vulture biker has just a bad attitude?  
BECAUSE EVERYBODY HATES HIM!  Vultures are underused and damn 
powerful in the hands of a pro.  I'll go on to spider mines below, 
here is the vulture's moment to shine.  Vultures, when using 
hit-and-run strats, decimate zealots and dark templar like nobody's 
business.  They also kill templar real good.  Ever tried to psi-storm 
a speed-upgraded vulture?  Might as well try to shoot an arrow 
through a fly!  A few vultures are a great way to pick off templar 
just waiting for marines to psi-storm.  In fact, if you spot a 
templar, it might not be a bad idea to run vultures in during combat 
just for the sake of templar-killing.  They do it real well.  
Vultures are amazing expansion-killers, running past all but the best 
laid defenses and decimating peons.  Speaking of which, against 
lightly guarded protoss bases, running in 6 vultures just to kill 
peons is a damn good idea.  Against zerg, vultures are excellent ways 
to kill poorly defended zerg expansions, but aren't too effective 
after that.

Spider Mines:  Ho ho!  Perhaps the most cost-effective defense on the 
ground.  Build vultures for all their uses above and get spider mines 
to boot!  What a deal!  Spider mines, in clumps of 4-6 can severely 
damage an incoming attack force, imagine if your front line of 
marines suddenly died and a good deal of your tanks took 125 damage.  
Ouch.  Mines are also great scouts (nothing leaves their base without 
you knowing about it), and are the most cost-effective way to watch 
expansions, not even taking the food of a burrowed zergling.  Place 
these boys in front of bunkers or even BEHIND chokes (in between a 
choke and a base) for an extra suprise attack.  In fact, having a 
dummy turret + bunker at a choke just to distract enemies from mines 
isn't a shabby idea.  Against zerg, mines slaughter lurkers (they 
can't even shoot back, poor babies = )), decimate zerglings, hurt 
hydralisks if layed in clumps, and make ultralisks think twice about 
coming into darkswarm.  If you meet a zerg player that leaves lings 
of hydras burrowed in clumps without lurkers, lay a few spider mines 
in that area and watch the fun = ).

Goliaths:  OH YEAH!  The best anti-air unit of the game takes charge! 
 With an impressive +4 per upgrade, natural armor, low cost, 
reasonable build and a cheap range upgrade that leaves air forces 
crying, the goliath is your answer to any and every air fleet there 
is.  With a few lockdowns these things are even SCARIER!  Great 
support for siege tanks.  Against zerg, these are beasts.  Mutalisks 
and Guardians can't touch them, and they make queen's think twice 
before using broodlings on tanks.  The queen may broodling the 
goliath instead, but at least your precious tank is safe = ).

Siege tanks:  Heh, my favorite terran unit.  The longest range in the 
game and massive damage makes this mac-daddy a unit to be feared.  On 
defense they keep forces back, and make reavers explode in a nice 
array of sparks.  On the offense they kill templar before they storm 
(2 tanks kill a templar in one volley), decimate cannons, and provide 
excellent anti dragoon / reaver support.  Just make sure to support 
these guys.  Marines, Goliaths, Vultures, Wraiths, BattleCruisers, 
Ghosts, Firebats, ALL are great combinations with a siege tank.  
Think zealots will do much to a tank / firebat / medic combo?  I 
didn't think so either.  The range of a siege tank is so massive that 
you can usually build a bunker outside your enemies line of sight 
BEFORE you begin sieging their base.  Marines or firebats die to 
psi-storm, but bunkers don't.  In fact, the siege tank is even one of 
the best island units, able to take down anti-air defense from nearby 
islands safely!  This is a unit that MUST be used, unless your 
opponent is going pure air with no defense at all, siege tanks are a 
must.  No terran should fear even the largest protoss defense, one 
siege tank is all it takes.  Guess I like em, huh? = ).  Against 
zerg, siege tanks are a MUST.  Lurkers, Hydralisks, Zerglings, 
Ultralisks, all fall before the might of the siege tank.  Darkswarm 
offers little protection, and tanks outrange a defiler's plague.

Airborne units:  Yeah, after all that I have even MORE to write!

Wraiths:  An important terran unit overlooked.  Sure, every base and 
its mother now has cloak detection, but where?  Spoiled protoss 
players who only build cannons at their choke are in for an 
unpleasent suprise when a few wraiths decimate their peon line.  The 
rule of wraiths is that they are good not for what they do, but for 
what they FORCE your opponent to do.  3 cannons at each peon line in 
each base with additional anti-air available should things get messy 
JUST to counter WRAITHS.  Observers are powerful, but vulnerable to 
comsat (have it hotkeyed, use it on fleets, if they have observers 
kill them and then attack, otherwise enjoy the feast).  In fact, it 
has been a LONG time since I've seen a protoss player include 
observers with their attack force before it was too late = ).  
Psi-storm is a pain, but can be dodged if you are quick at the 
keyboard.  Wraiths decimate scouts and carriers for the cost, and do 
great upraded.  Against zerg, they are useful simply because of the 
vulnerable overlord.  The zerg's main detector is so damn vulnerable 
to attack that wraiths can bring it down in just a few volleys.  If 
your opponent only brings 1-2 overlords on an attack, well, = ).

Dropship:  Moves units, 'nuff said.  Great way to set up bunkers and 
siege points.  Try dropping a ways behind an enemy's peon line, 
building a bunker just outside siege mode, then putting a tank in 
siege so it shoots the peons.  Build a turret for cloak detection and 
watch those peons run!

Valkyrie:  Well.... I don't like it, others disagree, but generally 
you're safer off going with Wraiths or Goliaths for your anti-air.  
It does look damn cool, however.  Against masses of pure mutalisks, 
the valkyrie shines, but throw in a few scourge or a good amount of 
devourers and the valkyrie is scrap metal again.  Better off using 
irradiate agaisnt zerg.

Science Vessel:  Did someone say "irradiate"?  Perhaps the 
best spellcaster in the game.  Why?  Does it have psi-storm?  No.  
Does it have recall? No.  Does it have Plague?  No again, but it is 
cheap for a spellcaster, detects, is fast, long sight range, and is 
probably the best hit-and-run unit out there.  Irradiate zerg.  
Irradiate three units then run for the hills, repeat as desired.  
Irradiate templar to weaken protoss defenses and ensure protection 
from psi-storm beyond mere EMP.  Irradiate medics and laugh as the 
marines she tries to heal she hurts with irradiate!  Irradiate dark 
templar to piss off a protoss player, = ).  EMP everything the 
protoss have, period.  Defense matrix is awesome, a great way to keep 
your vessels safe while making them useful.  Science Vessels are 
amazing units, really, use them in every game you can.  Remember, 
science vessels fly, and as long as they have irradiate, no peon line 
is safe = ).

BattleCruiser:  Hated, loved, this unit is almost as big a 
controversy as the vulture.  Don't rely on them, but don't shun them 
either.  Against the protoss, yamato is a great way to slowly 
decimate cannons, reavers, scouts, wound carriers, kill corsairs, or 
pick off dragoons.  It isn't fast, but it is hard to counter.  
Against zerg, don't rely on them because of their vulnerability to 
scourge, hydralisks, plague, darkswarm and devourers, but keep them 
around.  They make excellent all-around support, and almost always 
pay for themselves in damage absorbed and damaged dished out.  
Upgrades are a must.

Well, now that I've made you read all this, You MIGHT have a slightly 
better terran playing skill.  Just to finish it off, I'll include a 
few "strats" to use.

-  Vulture rush.  Spider mines ensure that ground-based 
counterattacks will be mostly inneffective while vultures prevent 
expansions and decimate peon lines.  Great for anybody who relies on 
infantry a little too much.  Easy to alter to siege tank / goliath 
combo as well.

-  Tank push.  Everyone's favorite.  Just use tanks + any anti-air 
unit + anti-infantry (for protoss mainly).  If you have comsat, 
detection isn't even a problem.  Very powerful.  Very underused, as 
well.  Actually, a Goliath + Tank combo is one of the most versatile 
and powerful combinations out there, and belongs to the terran = ).

-  Wraith rush.  Wraiths probably won't kill your opponent, but they 
will weaken them severely.  If peon lines are well-protected, use 
cloak and slaughter those poor probes / drones / SCVs.  Destroy 
buildings that aren't protected, contain your enemy by forcing them 
to build massive amounts of detection and defense at any base just to 
use 1 siege tank with those wraiths to bring it all down.  Wraiths 
probably won't destroy every building your opponent has, but they 
will make them spend 10x as much on defense.

-  Infantry push.  Heck, nothing wrong with a little marine / medic 
combo.  You don't even have to make it large enough to destroy a 
base, just something to remind your opponent "hey, I'm 
watching".  Use this to make them defend heavier then they 
usually would and avoid expanding for a while.  Sometimes called a 
"piss-rush", even a small attack force can make an opponent 
think that "The Big-One" is just around the corner.


Well, hope all that helps, if it doesn't.... well, tough, you read it 
anyways.

BTW, The Antar has Protoss Fever, the only known cure is to observe 3 
successful vulture rushes in a row.  We are currently working on 
treatment, but as of now our "Look at how cool ghosts are" 
treatment has not been as successful as we had hoped.  = )

- Evilboy